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	<title>
	Comments on: Chaykin and Transphobia: Let Me School You	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/</link>
	<description>Comic Book Review And Commentary</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:27:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Karen Walsh		</title>
		<link>https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22361</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Karen Walsh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://temp-monkeysfightingrobots-url.wpmudev.hostm/?p=80742#comment-22361</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22339&quot;&gt;Chutney&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you. I&#039;m sorry that you have had to respond to this kind of comment, not just this time, but in general. 

It is disheartening to know that comments sections like this one are so unwelcoming that you would be the only person willing to respond other than me. Thank you. I appreciate it as someone who had given up responding thinking that no one else felt the same way I did. 

I won&#039;t do that again.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22339">Chutney</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you. I&#8217;m sorry that you have had to respond to this kind of comment, not just this time, but in general. </p>
<p>It is disheartening to know that comments sections like this one are so unwelcoming that you would be the only person willing to respond other than me. Thank you. I appreciate it as someone who had given up responding thinking that no one else felt the same way I did. </p>
<p>I won&#8217;t do that again.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chutney		</title>
		<link>https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22339</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chutney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2017 02:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://temp-monkeysfightingrobots-url.wpmudev.hostm/?p=80742#comment-22339</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22190&quot;&gt;Mark Quatrain&lt;/a&gt;.

Transgender women have experienced first hand what being forced into sex work is like for far too long. You are defending the existence of a very old, very ugly and very tiring, disgusting stereotype that has fueled the abuses and deaths of literally countless numbers of trans women. Practically any time a trans woman is portrayed in the media, she&#039;s a sex worker or a hair dresser. Always being portrayed in such a manner is the classic definition of a STEREOTYPE. We get arrested for walking down the street because of a stereotype. We get denied legitimate employment all the time, because of guess what? That bloody stereotype that you are so blissfully &quot;unaware of&quot; gets used as the primary excuse employers have to tell us to go away. Tell me now, how easy is it to get by in this world without a steady paycheck from legitimate work of some kind?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22190">Mark Quatrain</a>.</p>
<p>Transgender women have experienced first hand what being forced into sex work is like for far too long. You are defending the existence of a very old, very ugly and very tiring, disgusting stereotype that has fueled the abuses and deaths of literally countless numbers of trans women. Practically any time a trans woman is portrayed in the media, she&#8217;s a sex worker or a hair dresser. Always being portrayed in such a manner is the classic definition of a STEREOTYPE. We get arrested for walking down the street because of a stereotype. We get denied legitimate employment all the time, because of guess what? That bloody stereotype that you are so blissfully &#8220;unaware of&#8221; gets used as the primary excuse employers have to tell us to go away. Tell me now, how easy is it to get by in this world without a steady paycheck from legitimate work of some kind?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mark Mason		</title>
		<link>https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22294</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Mason]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2017 05:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://temp-monkeysfightingrobots-url.wpmudev.hostm/?p=80742#comment-22294</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There was no &quot;gang rape&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was no &#8220;gang rape&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kevin Brian Birge		</title>
		<link>https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22248</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Brian Birge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2017 21:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://temp-monkeysfightingrobots-url.wpmudev.hostm/?p=80742#comment-22248</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think any group of people has a right to demand an artist to cater to their whims. Lesson the first: don&#039;t be a self-important spoiled brat.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think any group of people has a right to demand an artist to cater to their whims. Lesson the first: don&#8217;t be a self-important spoiled brat.</p>
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		<title>
		By: JCha		</title>
		<link>https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22246</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JCha]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2017 20:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://temp-monkeysfightingrobots-url.wpmudev.hostm/?p=80742#comment-22246</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[How is it your business what Chaykin wants to write about?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How is it your business what Chaykin wants to write about?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cuestionador		</title>
		<link>https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22240</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cuestionador]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2017 18:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://temp-monkeysfightingrobots-url.wpmudev.hostm/?p=80742#comment-22240</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Karen, with all respect, seems like you never read a Chaykin comic before this (like Black Kiss and American Flagg).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karen, with all respect, seems like you never read a Chaykin comic before this (like Black Kiss and American Flagg).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Karen Walsh		</title>
		<link>https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22227</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Karen Walsh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2017 13:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://temp-monkeysfightingrobots-url.wpmudev.hostm/?p=80742#comment-22227</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22211&quot;&gt;Conrad Radzoff&lt;/a&gt;.

Entertainment has social value as a conduit of societal norms. Identity politics may feel like a cancer, if the identity being promoted isn&#039;t your own. Walking on eggshells is very different than having to be faced constantly with vitriol and hatred. 

There is a plethora of research proving the value of representation in the media. 
First, the importance of representation: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=importance+of+representation+in+the+media&#038;hl=en&#038;as_sdt=0%2C7&#038;oq=importance+of+representation+in+
Next, here&#039;s a list of resources to help you better understand all the reasons that entertainment is important to changing social norms, not just as entertainment. 
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=entertainment+as+communication+of+social+norms&#038;btnG=&#038;hl=en&#038;as_sdt=0%2C7

Look at your own words. You responded to someone whose views are different than yours with &quot;This whole article is bullshit.&quot; Imagine if every time you had an opinion, someone&#039;s first response was &quot;You&#039;re ideas are bullshit and you are a cancer on the world.&quot; Spend your whole life being told you&#039;re opinions are nonsense. Have people violently and angrily yell at you every day. You can find better ways to express displeasure than the constant cursing and demeaning of those different from you.

Entertainment and our discussions of it are a great way to learn how to think differently. I would hope that instead of getting mired down in all the anger and hatred you&#039;re expressing in this response that you would try to learn to approach others with greater empathy. If at the very least, you understand the social importance of entertainment, then perhaps that&#039;s a step in becoming a better citizen.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22211">Conrad Radzoff</a>.</p>
<p>Entertainment has social value as a conduit of societal norms. Identity politics may feel like a cancer, if the identity being promoted isn&#8217;t your own. Walking on eggshells is very different than having to be faced constantly with vitriol and hatred. </p>
<p>There is a plethora of research proving the value of representation in the media.<br />
First, the importance of representation: <a href="https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=importance+of+representation+in+the+media&#038;hl=en&#038;as_sdt=0%2C7&#038;oq=importance+of+representation+in+" rel="nofollow ugc">https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=importance+of+representation+in+the+media&#038;hl=en&#038;as_sdt=0%2C7&#038;oq=importance+of+representation+in+</a><br />
Next, here&#8217;s a list of resources to help you better understand all the reasons that entertainment is important to changing social norms, not just as entertainment.<br />
<a href="https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=entertainment+as+communication+of+social+norms&#038;btnG=&#038;hl=en&#038;as_sdt=0%2C7" rel="nofollow ugc">https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=entertainment+as+communication+of+social+norms&#038;btnG=&#038;hl=en&#038;as_sdt=0%2C7</a></p>
<p>Look at your own words. You responded to someone whose views are different than yours with &#8220;This whole article is bullshit.&#8221; Imagine if every time you had an opinion, someone&#8217;s first response was &#8220;You&#8217;re ideas are bullshit and you are a cancer on the world.&#8221; Spend your whole life being told you&#8217;re opinions are nonsense. Have people violently and angrily yell at you every day. You can find better ways to express displeasure than the constant cursing and demeaning of those different from you.</p>
<p>Entertainment and our discussions of it are a great way to learn how to think differently. I would hope that instead of getting mired down in all the anger and hatred you&#8217;re expressing in this response that you would try to learn to approach others with greater empathy. If at the very least, you understand the social importance of entertainment, then perhaps that&#8217;s a step in becoming a better citizen.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Conrad Radzoff		</title>
		<link>https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22211</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Conrad Radzoff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2017 05:45:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://temp-monkeysfightingrobots-url.wpmudev.hostm/?p=80742#comment-22211</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This whole article is bullshit! The only lesson that needs to be learned is by people who expect the world to walk on eggshells for them. And that lesson is &quot;it doesn&#039;t and it won&#039;t, so suck it up.&quot; This is fiction. It&#039;s entertainment. If you don&#039;t like it, then you don&#039;t support it. After that, it&#039;s out of your hands. Identity politics is a cancer on society. That you inject that nonsense into world of fiction, meant for entertainment, where we can get away from that kind of crapola, is the only thing offensive here. Fucking hell!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole article is bullshit! The only lesson that needs to be learned is by people who expect the world to walk on eggshells for them. And that lesson is &#8220;it doesn&#8217;t and it won&#8217;t, so suck it up.&#8221; This is fiction. It&#8217;s entertainment. If you don&#8217;t like it, then you don&#8217;t support it. After that, it&#8217;s out of your hands. Identity politics is a cancer on society. That you inject that nonsense into world of fiction, meant for entertainment, where we can get away from that kind of crapola, is the only thing offensive here. Fucking hell!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Karen Walsh		</title>
		<link>https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22198</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Karen Walsh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2017 00:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://temp-monkeysfightingrobots-url.wpmudev.hostm/?p=80742#comment-22198</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22196&quot;&gt;Mark Quatrain&lt;/a&gt;.

I had no idea he was Jewish. I apologize. 
&quot;One more cis, het, dude telling people what their narrative should be.&quot; Fair enough. Also, I noted that the character in question was a rapist. I don&#039;t even feel like getting into the fact that, once again, it&#039;s the negative stereotype that trans people are dangerous or that non-cis, non-het is obviously sexually deviant... I could, of course, go on. However, clearly, the conversation would be missing the appropriate audience. 

Where do we see this as a stereotype? From people IN the trans community. Here. Have a read. https://mobile.twitter.com/MagsVisaggs/status/873288678151528448?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&amp;ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bleedingcool.com%2F2017%2F06%2F09%2Ftransphobic-scenes-in-howard-chaykin-comic%2F

I don&#039;t know what revisionist history books you&#039;ve read? But if I recall correctly, the Nazis were in charge of an entire country. That somehow makes them a MAJORITY not a MARGINALIZED group. 

Also, you might want to read about what the logical fallacy of faulty comparison is. I think that you missed that in your classes.  https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/97/Faulty_Comparison]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22196">Mark Quatrain</a>.</p>
<p>I had no idea he was Jewish. I apologize.<br />
&#8220;One more cis, het, dude telling people what their narrative should be.&#8221; Fair enough. Also, I noted that the character in question was a rapist. I don&#8217;t even feel like getting into the fact that, once again, it&#8217;s the negative stereotype that trans people are dangerous or that non-cis, non-het is obviously sexually deviant&#8230; I could, of course, go on. However, clearly, the conversation would be missing the appropriate audience. </p>
<p>Where do we see this as a stereotype? From people IN the trans community. Here. Have a read. <a href="https://mobile.twitter.com/MagsVisaggs/status/873288678151528448?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&#038;ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bleedingcool.com%2F2017%2F06%2F09%2Ftransphobic-scenes-in-howard-chaykin-comic%2F" rel="nofollow ugc">https://mobile.twitter.com/MagsVisaggs/status/873288678151528448?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&#038;ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bleedingcool.com%2F2017%2F06%2F09%2Ftransphobic-scenes-in-howard-chaykin-comic%2F</a></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what revisionist history books you&#8217;ve read? But if I recall correctly, the Nazis were in charge of an entire country. That somehow makes them a MAJORITY not a MARGINALIZED group. </p>
<p>Also, you might want to read about what the logical fallacy of faulty comparison is. I think that you missed that in your classes.  <a href="https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/97/Faulty_Comparison" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/97/Faulty_Comparison</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Mark Quatrain		</title>
		<link>https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22196</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Quatrain]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2017 00:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://temp-monkeysfightingrobots-url.wpmudev.hostm/?p=80742#comment-22196</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22191&quot;&gt;Karen Walsh&lt;/a&gt;.

What stereotype? I&#039;m not aware of any significant belief that trans people are generally prostitutes, or that &quot;prostitute&quot; is a typical occupation among trans people. Nor am I aware that the trans &quot;community&quot; has been established as taking the position you hold. If you&#039;re saying that every &quot;community&quot; should be judged by the snap judgments of the most aggressive people who self-identify online as its members. 

I note that you seem to be perfectly fine with Chaykin writing a Jewish character who is a smug, materialistic, misogynistic mass murderer, in the same comic. 

Nazis are marginalized, too (and they generally deserve it). Are you really saying they, too, are entitled to control the writing of &quot;their stories&quot;. Muslim parents who practice female genital mutilation? Pedophiles? There&#039;s no equivalence among &quot;marginalized&quot; social groups, and no reason to believe &quot;marginalization&quot; is any sort of justification for suppressing unfavorable characterizations of members of such a group. The Serb militants who committed genocide against Muslims twenty years ago viewed themselves as marginalized, as do most working-class Trump voters.

And your stereotyping a Jewish writer like Chaykin as &quot;one white, cis, het dude&quot; is itself offensive. By your own argument, you should admit your error and apologize.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22191">Karen Walsh</a>.</p>
<p>What stereotype? I&#8217;m not aware of any significant belief that trans people are generally prostitutes, or that &#8220;prostitute&#8221; is a typical occupation among trans people. Nor am I aware that the trans &#8220;community&#8221; has been established as taking the position you hold. If you&#8217;re saying that every &#8220;community&#8221; should be judged by the snap judgments of the most aggressive people who self-identify online as its members. </p>
<p>I note that you seem to be perfectly fine with Chaykin writing a Jewish character who is a smug, materialistic, misogynistic mass murderer, in the same comic. </p>
<p>Nazis are marginalized, too (and they generally deserve it). Are you really saying they, too, are entitled to control the writing of &#8220;their stories&#8221;. Muslim parents who practice female genital mutilation? Pedophiles? There&#8217;s no equivalence among &#8220;marginalized&#8221; social groups, and no reason to believe &#8220;marginalization&#8221; is any sort of justification for suppressing unfavorable characterizations of members of such a group. The Serb militants who committed genocide against Muslims twenty years ago viewed themselves as marginalized, as do most working-class Trump voters.</p>
<p>And your stereotyping a Jewish writer like Chaykin as &#8220;one white, cis, het dude&#8221; is itself offensive. By your own argument, you should admit your error and apologize.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Karen Walsh		</title>
		<link>https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22191</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Karen Walsh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jun 2017 22:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://temp-monkeysfightingrobots-url.wpmudev.hostm/?p=80742#comment-22191</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22190&quot;&gt;Mark Quatrain&lt;/a&gt;.

That is precisely what I am saying. If a community of people says they don&#039;t want a stereotype to continue, and the story is not written by a member of that community? Then that story shouldn&#039;t be written. 

It is not our place to tell a marginalized group that we can tell their stories however we like. We just say, &quot;I&#039;m sorry. I&#039;ll do better next time.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22190">Mark Quatrain</a>.</p>
<p>That is precisely what I am saying. If a community of people says they don&#8217;t want a stereotype to continue, and the story is not written by a member of that community? Then that story shouldn&#8217;t be written. </p>
<p>It is not our place to tell a marginalized group that we can tell their stories however we like. We just say, &#8220;I&#8217;m sorry. I&#8217;ll do better next time.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mark Quatrain		</title>
		<link>https://monkeysfightingrobots.co/chaykin-divided-states-hysteria/#comment-22190</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark Quatrain]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jun 2017 22:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://temp-monkeysfightingrobots-url.wpmudev.hostm/?p=80742#comment-22190</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What a load of utter hooey. Chaykin&#039;s story included a brief scene where johns attacked a trans prostitute they had hired, and the prostitute killed them. If you&#039;re arguing that because some trans people don&#039;t want the existence of trans prostitutes to be discussed, they can&#039;t be, then your argument is utterly worthless.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a load of utter hooey. Chaykin&#8217;s story included a brief scene where johns attacked a trans prostitute they had hired, and the prostitute killed them. If you&#8217;re arguing that because some trans people don&#8217;t want the existence of trans prostitutes to be discussed, they can&#8217;t be, then your argument is utterly worthless.</p>
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